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L3C and the Arts Symposium
On November 16, 2012 there was a symposium on the new hybrid not-for-profit / for-profit form of incorporation in the United States and its potential application for arts organizations. The symposium was developed and produced by Michael DiFonzo, who is doing his masters thesis on L3Cs and theatre.
Storified by Young Associates · Tue, Dec 04 2012 14:01:52
I (Katie Chasowy) live-tweeting the symposium for Young Associates. Below is a stream of my tweets with tweets from Ali Houseworth using the @L3C_Arts handle and several others who added to the discussion that afternoon.
The live audience is starting to arrive! We'll be livestreaming on #newplaytv starting at 2pm. You can follow here: http://bit.ly/b5whLiL3C and the Arts
From 2-6 I (Katie) will be live-tweeting the #LC3 And the Arts symposium at Columbia University! Check it out: http://ow.ly/flZhfYoung Associates
RT @AlliHouseworth: Aight y'all, follow @L3C_ARTS this afternoon from 2-6. Gonna be sharing a TON of info about the #L3C model.Young Associates
Room is starting to fill up! Gr8 audience in the house today! We've got members of the off-b'way community, b'way producers, cont....L3C and the Arts
...non-profit managers, some entertainment lawyers, accountants, students., some foundation reps and more! Let us know if you're here!L3C and the Arts
It'll be interesting to see how this corporation model can work in the states and see if it could be applicable in Canada #l3cYoung Associates
@l3c_arts I'm here! Live-tweeting from a Canadian perspective in the back left of the room!Young Associates
Introductions... You can find the speakers' bios here: http://www.l3candthearts.com/Bios.html
RT @NewPlayTV #L3C Symposium has begun livestreaming on #NEWPLAY TV! Follow @L3C_Arts & hashtags #L3C. Watch it live : http://newplaytv.infoL3C and the Arts
Alright everyone, we're getting started! We'll be taking questions from our Twitter audience and following your conversations so pls join inL3C and the Arts
The producing and theatre management program at Columbia has always focused on the blend of non-profit and commercial models. #L3CL3C and the Arts
Are you a non-profit arts org that borrows ideas from the commercial theatre? A commercial producer who uses non-profit practices? #L3CL3C and the Arts
Hardware store parables to start off the L3C symposium. What tool do I need? Well, what are you trying to do? #l3cJocelyn Shratter
@L3C_ARTS #L3C it's all about figuring out what business model you needPCOC
Don't forget that when you're talking about models you should begin the conversation with "What do you want to do?"L3C and the Arts
First part of the symposium: What is a #L3C? Second part: How is that relevant to the arts?Young Associates
I'm most familiar with the tools for non-profit theatre. I'd love to understand more about the profit theatre models as we talk about #l3cJocelyn Shratter
@Uranaishi we should touch on that a bit in the presentation but don't be shy about asking questions if it's not covered by the endL3C and the Arts
You can follow some of our panelists on Twitter too: @lanewealthgroup, @gdmosher, @artfulmanager, @L3C_Rickz #L3CL3C and the Arts
Michael DiFonzo welcomes you!L3C and the Arts
First Speaker: Mark Lane
Mark Lane, a business and tax attorney, gives us a briefing on tax law in the US. Then he explained how L3Cs came into existence.
First up: Mark Lane (bus & tax attorney) http://www.markjlane.comYoung Associates
#L3C Marc Lane teaches social entrepreneurship at Northwestern - (I love Chicago!)Eric Powell Holm
ML: L3C is a product of the social service model #l3c. More NFPs seeking to diversify revenue; using philanthropy more impactfullyYoung Associates
ML: NFP are moving from a charity model to a for profit model; #L3C a hybrid of bothYoung Associates
you guys, ANCIENT TAX LAW IS SO EXCITING! don't be scared #l3cL3C and the Arts
Ancient tax law? I'm gonna need a cup of coffee, eh? #l3c #newplayAllison Taylor
Love all this context for tax law. Keep it coming! #newplay #L3C - #newplay live on http://newplaytv.infoManda Martin
Mark Lane is about to talk about tax law. Foundations are required to, by law, grant out money to get tax benefits.#l3cYoung Associates
Yes! A great briefing on US tax law for the Canadian in the room MT @mandalmartin: Love all this context for tax law. Keep it coming! #L3CYoung Associates
Remember: foundations must distribute 5% of their assets annually to maintain their charitable status - in grants OR investments #L3CL3C and the Arts
Lane: Foundations can also invest, not just grant. This is what has led to the L3C via the "Program Related Investment" (5% asset dist.)Young Associates
In this case, a foundation's investments must be a "program-related investment" (PRI). A PRI meets the 5% obligation of a foundation #L3CL3C and the Arts
Lane: Satisfies PRI reqmnts if you have a targeted investment that's speculative but charit. in nature & not a lot of $$ is to be made #l3cYoung Associates
"Crisis presents opportunity" ~ Marc J Lane Esq at the #L3C #Arts SymposiumSAOTINC
Lane: PRIs can be loans w/ interest free or below market rate, loan guarantee, equity investment #l3cYoung Associates
PRIs come in many flavors. Here are a few: interest-free or below-market rate loans, loan guarantees, leases, loan participationsL3C and the Arts
Lane: BUT no equity to sell in a NFP, so this would be a a FP entity that is speculative, charitable, but has social impact #l3cYoung Associates
Understanding tax law is critical for using the #l3c within the #arts via @NewPlayTV - #newplay live on http://newplaytv.infoBernard Hall
PRIs in action (can apply to #arts orgs): low-interest loans to disadvantaged biz owners, direct investments in biz's that create jobs #L3CL3C and the Arts
Lane: A lot of PRI regulation has finally be codified in proposed rules in April of 2012. See livestream:#l3c http://ow.ly/fm4lnYoung Associates
The slides will be available http://atwww.l3candthearts.com after the presentation #l3c #arts #newplayL3C and the Arts
PRIs not limited to charitable class of organizations #l3cAndrew Zitcer
#l3c I think leading with ancient tax law was a bust. I feel like there is a better way to share this info... Info graphic? Prezi?Patrick Berger
Honestly still a little skeptical about all these new rules expanding definitions and qualifications to include for-profit entities. #L3CJocelyn Shratter
@l3c_arts with loss of 501c3 status, won't artists and volunteers object to foregone remuneration when the corporation is for profit?Brian Beirne
@brianbeirne great questions. Are you here in the room with us today?L3C and the Arts
@L3C_ARTS yes I'm in the roomBrian Beirne
@brianbeirne great. be sure to ask it on your card! we'll make sure that gets addressedL3C and the Arts
Lane wrote the L3C Illinois law, but clarifies he didn't create the name "#L3C".Young Associates
Lane doesn't like the wording "low profit" in the L3C name because many assume that you cannot make a profit or are at an operating loss.
Lane: I'm a capitalist... A lot of the #l3cs are already making a lot of $$.Young Associates
Lane The #l3cs making $$ are knowledge based bus that place premium on intellectual property.Young Associates
Lane:#L3C is a subset of the LLC [similar to Limited Partnership of Corporation in Canada]Young Associates
The #L3C is a subset of the LLC. Nine states currently authorize L3Cs.: IL, LA, ME, MI, NC, RI, UT, VT, WYL3C and the Arts
Lane: Can have many organizational management structures within an #l3cYoung Associates
RT @l3c_arts: The #L3C is a subset of the LLC. Nine states currently authorize L3Cs.: IL, LA, ME, MI, NC, RI, UT, VT, WYYoung Associates
The #L3C is a special kind of LLC: May have 1 or more for-profit "members" and one or more non-profit "members"L3C and the Arts
@impresario_nyc: hope everyones brain isn't frying yet!L3C and the Arts
Lane: An #L3C can have for profit "members" or NFP "members". IE a charity can be the sole member of an L3C.Young Associates
“@YoungAssocMgt: charity can be the sole member of an L3C.” @impresario_nyc: and L3C can be wholly owned subsidiary of a nonprofitL3C and the Arts
The #L3C is for charitable or educational purposes, there is no significant purpose to produce income or property appreciation... cont.L3C and the Arts
Lane: #LC3 is essentially an LLC tailored to qualify for PRIs.Young Associates
... and an #L3C must have no political or legislative purposeL3C and the Arts
So question: if a theatre company under L3C produces political plays, would that violate the no political or legislative purpose req? #L3CJocelyn Shratter
Good Q! RT @uranaishi if a #l3c theatre company produces political plays, would that violate the no political or legislative purpose req?Young Associates
@Uranaishi great question. you're in the room, right? That's a good one to ask the panel later. Write it down!L3C and the Arts
A reason in addition to maple syrup to move to VT. MT @L3C_ARTSNine states currently authorize #L3C.: IL, LA, ME, MI, NC, RI, UT, VT, WYAllison Taylor
Despite the name: Low-Profit Limited Liability Company, the #L3C doesn't have a cap on earnings. Thanks for the clarity Marc J. Lane!Meg Kelly
Lane:1st group of investors: Foundation investing in #L3C incurs high financial risk, earns low financial return, but high social returnsYoung Associates
Lane: 2nd group of investors: Socially conscious investor incurs lower financial risk, earns higher financial returns #l3cYoung Associates
Lane: 3rd investor: Mrkt-driven investor incurs mrkt-rate risk, earns mrkt rate returns. This is possible because 1st & 2nd investor #l3cYoung Associates
MT @YoungAssocMgt Foundation investing in #L3C incurs high financial risk, earns low financial return, but high social returnsL3C and the Arts
@L3C_ARTS so how to we convince NY State to allow L3C? we have delicious food here too @Typical__Taylor #l3csmaziz
@smaziz @typical_taylor it 's possible in some cases 2 b an #L3C in 1 of those states that does biz in another (that's not one of the 9)L3C and the Arts
.@L3C_ARTS @smaziz Ohhhh, like all of those NFPs that incorporated in Delaware but did things in #NYC? #l3c #newplayAllison Taylor
@Typical__Taylor we(I) will make sure that issue is discussed before end-of-dayL3C and the Arts
All this investment talk is foreign to me as a Canadian who works for orgs receiving (comparatively) large amount of government grants #l3cYoung Associates
I wonder if the #L3C model could work in Canada. We don't have the big foundations like they do here in the US.Young Associates
Some #L3C Applications: 1. for mission-driven ventures seeking to secure PRI support 2. as wholly-owned subsidiaries of tax-exempt orgsL3C and the Arts
Interstate commerce laws allow you to incorporate in one state and do business in anotherL3C and the Arts
Remember, if you're with us in person today you can ask your questions at the end of the session. You guys have great stuff 2 discuss!L3C and the Arts
Lane: Governance attributes of #L3C superior than its financing attributes because overarching reason of everyone involved is charitable.Young Associates
Reading Resource: bookmark this http://bit.ly/XMLLyQ article to read later! #L3C #arts #newplayL3C and the Arts
#L3C emerging entity form; hybrid business structure; sub set of the LLC for info consult your attorneySAOTINC
“@HeatherEShields: are standards the same for a NP's investment as a foundation, mezzanine investor, etc?” @impresario_nyc: long answerL3C and the Arts
#L3C and the #arts - in social enterprise success should be measured in units of accomplishment, not units of activityBrian Beirne
Lane:# L3C laws in 9 states, but you can organize in one of those states then recognize it as a foreign entity in whatever state you're...Young Associates
This whole incorporating in one state and operating in another boggles my mind. But, it sounds more complicated than I'm sure it is #l3cYoung Associates
@YoungAssocMgt Think of credit card companies. Most form their companies in Delaware but actually operate in other states.Bernard Hall
In Canada, you either incorporate according to your province's laws or by the federal laws...Young Associates
Big thanks to Marc Lane! http://www.marcjlane.com #L3CYoung Associates
Excellent overview of what the #L3C actually is by Marc J. Lane - even if I didn't understand all of it...Jocelyn Shratter
Yes! We can organize a #L3C in another state and be here! #BOOM #newplay @smaziz, let's just buy blueberries and syrup at @UnSqGreenmarketAllison Taylor
Andrew Taylor summarizes and asks for clarity on some technical terms used by Mark Lane.
Andrew Tayor (@artfulmanager) highlights the key terms: Off-balance sheet financing. What's that?Young Associates
Moving on to the panel now, where we'll spend a bit more time understanding the machine of the #L3CL3C and the Arts
How can Donor Advised Funds (DAFs) be used here? @L3C_ARTS #l3c #arts @NewPlayTV - #newplay live on http://newplaytv.infoBernard Hall
"Understand the machine." #l3c-inator #l3cPatrick Berger
Double Bottom Line: When you're getting both financial and social returns #l3cYoung Associates
Rich Zwetsch, co founder of interSector Partners L3C, one of the first L3Cs.
Next up: Rick Zwetsch #l3c.Young Associates
Rick Zwetsch is a co-founder and principal partner of interSector Partners L3C. Follow him at @L3C_RickZ Their website: http://bit.ly/PZtyuEL3C and the Arts
.@L3C_RickZ's partner Caryn can be followed here: @caryncap #L3CL3C and the Arts
Zwetsch is the co-founder at interSector Partners, a consulting from Colorado. interSector was the 39th L3C.Young Associates
Zwetsch: The #l3c brand has open doors for the company.Young Associates
You can find @L3C_RickZ's "Who is the L3C Entrepreneur?" resources here: http://bit.ly/TIydNH #L3CL3C and the Arts
Zwetsch: Downside to #L3C is that ppl spend too much time explaining the L3C; assumption that low profit means low impact.Young Associates
"Downside: inordinate amount of time while trying to grow a business, trying to explain what an #L3C is." - Rick ZwetschJocelyn Shratter
Who is an L3C entrepreneur? #L3C http://www.intersectorl3c.com/white_paper.htmlAndrew Zitcer
Zwetsch: #L3C is a for profit entity. You need to make profit to retain profit.Young Associates
And be sustainable...RT @YoungAssocMgt Zwetsch: #L3C is a for profit entity. You need to make profit to retain profit. @L3C_RickZinterSector Partners
Better link #L3C http://www.beneschlaw.com/files/Uploads/Documents/Who%20is%20the%20L3C%20Entrepreneur-1.pdfAndrew Zitcer
Q: Do you need a PRI base to have a #L3C? How would it work if you didn't have a PRI base?Young Associates
A: (Lane) Yes, as a standalone for profit business, all other funding sources available AND is attractive to social impact investors #L3CYoung Associates
Clarification: an #L3C doesn't HAVE to be funded by a foundationL3C and the Arts
A: (Lane) Yes, for a NFP related #L3C as an aid to capital constraints.Young Associates
"This is all sounding very magical at the moment." ~@artfulmanager #L3CL3C and the Arts
Other Notes:
Off-balance sheet financing sounds strange to me, but okay by IFRS so probably also okay in Canada: http://ow.ly/fma9tYoung Associates
@YoungAssocMgt There's a good addition to our glossary!Young Associates
Q's
#l3c if fdn makes a PRI loan and gets 90% return, does full loan value count towards 5% disbursement requirement, or just the 10% "loss"?Amy Kaissar
with loss of 501c3 status, won't artists and volunteers object to foregone remuneration when the corporation is for profit? #L3CBrian Beirne
Adam Huttler, founder and executive director of Fractured Atlas, a NFP with an L3C as a subsidiary business.
Next up: Adam Huttler, founder and exec dir of Fractured Atlas, a NFP that has a #L3C subsidiary.Young Associates
#L3C is about leveraging private investment to help social issues. Bringing entrepreneurs to social change.....I think. Very interesting.archaerie
@l3c_arts can an l3c receive straight donations? Or does it need to be tied to a 501c3 for that? #l3cMichael Benjamin
Huttler: Charities can give tax receipts to donors, but L3Cs cannot. #L3CYoung Associates
5013C does something huge in letting people deduct donated $ from taxes. Value of #L3C in the flag you wave, the signaling?Jocelyn Shratter
Huttler: L3Cs are more of a banner or flag that says they're fulfilling a mandate over profit. #l3cYoung Associates
Huttler: Until L3Cs can issue receipts, we have to 'temper the excitement' of the #L3CYoung Associates
I want to say that I'm paraphrasing the speakers unless it's in direct quotes. I often insert my Canadian terminology (ie "tax receipting")Young Associates
rebuttal to Adam Huttler - but it makes it so that social endeavor isn't bound to being perpetually broke and it can be profitable #l3cHeather Shields
@HeatherEShields the #l3c needs a better marketing campaign. That's one of the big problemss. @L3C_ARTS #arts @NewPlayTVBernard Hall
Lane: #L3C doesn't work everywhere, it's a only form.Young Associates
"The L3C no more easily assures a PRI as a Delaware Corporation assures an IPO" ~Marc Lane @lanewealthgroup #L3CL3C and the Arts
To Adam's point, the #l3c needs a stronger marketing campaign. @L3C_ARTS #arts @NewPlayTV - #newplay live on http://newplaytv.infoBernard Hall
@rememberHUEY @L3C_ARTS perhaps. especially the fact that you can begin an #l3c in a sanctioning state even if you don't live thereHeather Shields
@HeatherEShields @L3C_ARTS Yes. #L3C branding is in its early stages. It just needs more time to develop. #arts @NewPlayTVBernard Hall
Lane: Tax benefit element is significant. The way to relate L3Cs to tax deductions is via the 501(3)c (Cnd equiv. Charity) #l3cYoung Associates
Huttler: If you have an LLC that's wholly owned by a NFP, how can it be different to an #L3C?Young Associates
Lane: Governance. #l3cYoung Associates
I went on a bit of a thought-tangent about terminology...
Finally figured out when people are saying "C3" they mean 501(3)c. Coincidentally, "C3" is the term for the newly approved bus. form in BCYoung Associates
Here's an article about BC approving the "Community Contribution Company" http://ow.ly/fmc1nYoung Associates
The BC C3 is more like the UK's CIC in form, from my understanding:Young Associates
@taxdetective BC C3: http://cbernblog.ca/2012/05/bc-approves-c3/Young Associates
RT @taxdetective: @YoungAssocMgt very interesting. I had heard of initiative. See earlier post on revised BC Bus Corp Act Nov 1 2012 @CanLIIYoung Associates
Tangent over, back to the presentation...
Why did you incorporate as a #L3C? Zwetsch: "it seemed like the cool thing to do"Young Associates
Am I the only theatre kid in the room who keeps getting momentarily confused about what we're talking about when Marc says "Equity"? #L3CJocelyn Shratter
@uranaishi Haha, no union talk in this room today.Young Associates
Huttler: Fracture Atlas' #L3C has not attracted any PRIs yet.Young Associates
Q&A
where exactly does a PRI fall on a balance sheet? @L3C_ARTS #l3cHeather Shields
Q: Where does a PRI fall on your balance sheet? A: If 501(c)3 - liability, if it's a LLC or L3C it would be stockholder's equityYoung Associates
@Uranaishi HY tweeting from Toronto: On balance sheet, Equity = Assets minus Liabilities (AKA accum. surplus, residual value, net assets)Young Associates
with loss of 501c3 status, don't we also lose our sales tax exemption, our property tax exemption? #L3CBrian Beirne
Q: How does changing to a #L3C affect my tax exempt status?Young Associates
A: Changing from a charity to a #L3C would affect your tax exempt status. But, you would create a new L3C to aid the charity, not dissolve.Young Associates
Post Q&A tweets:
Hope that Q&A session helped! We're taking a 15 min break now. If you're joining us online and have more ?s to ask, send them our way. #L3CL3C and the Arts
Break time! Computer's charging up for the second part...Young Associates
Interesting discussion between Brian & Bernard...
#L3C interesting tool, but Fractured Atlas points out, allows nothing you couldn't already do, it just signals good intentBrian Beirne
#L3C can't c how useful to arts model unless led by a 501c3 so it's not a new business model; too many nfp advantages would be foregoneBrian Beirne
@brianbeirne The big problem is that C3s have a sustainability problem, especially for small and mid-sized arts orgs. #l3c @L3C_ARTSBernard Hall
@rememberHUEY @l3c_arts that's a managemnt problem. NFPs are allowed to have surpluses 4 reserves to support them - they don't have 2 lose $Brian Beirne
@brianbeirne @l3c_arts Of course. But C3 capital is allocated. And foundations like to see a couple years of operation b4 they grant $.Bernard Hall
@rememberHUEY again that's a foundation mngmnt problem. Will a foundation support a l3c with members who don't have a track record?Brian Beirne
More Q's via twitter:
Are there advantages to shifting certain operations from a 501c3 to a LLC/L3C? If so, which ones? #newplay #l3ctaylor gramps
Does 501c3 still have to comply w accounting and reporting on all LLC/L3C activity funded through its fiscal sponsorship? #newplay #l3ctaylor gramps
Does the L3C model have value to social purpose beyond it's potential capacity to attract additional investment? #newplay #l3ctaylor gramps
@tayten an #L3C does have to have a charitable or educational purposeL3C and the Arts
Back from break...
Alright, we are BACK! We're going to start talking about unique issues #L3Cs address in the #arts. Keep the questions coming!L3C and the Arts
Back! Now: #L3C and how they relate to arts organizationsYoung Associates
Q: Are investors subject to SEC regulations? #l3cYoung Associates
A: Lane: Yes, investments are subject to SEC legislations, but there are some exemptions.Young Associates
Up Next: Victoria Bailey & Gregory Mosher
Victoria Bailey up now, who's the ED of the Theatre Development Fund.Young Associates
Can the 501c3 be used purely for the purpose of channeling tax-deductible contributions to an LLC/L3C? #newplay #l3ctaylor gramps
Bailey: Indie artists now are using indigogo to raise $, so maybe #L3C is good form for these orgs. Also taps into younger donors/investorsYoung Associates
Tory Bailey begins to question how the #L3C model can be beneficial to individual artists. What do you the indiv artists out there think?L3C and the Arts
Is there an #L3C opportunity for larger organizations to partner? ~Tory Bailey from @tdfnyc asksL3C and the Arts
Bailey: one-off co-pros are often how people are working with limited $$. Perhaps many nfps join together to form one #l3c to engage more $Young Associates
#l3c this seems more 4 fp to access fdn $ than for nfp to access private $. Increases competition 4 already limited fdn funds. Bad for nfps?Amy Kaissar
Bailey: Summarized three "buckets" of attraction of L3C in the arts. **I need to check the livefeed to summarize these**Young Associates
Zwetsch: Sees growth in L3Cs among younger people.Young Associates
Hutter: (Org is one of the largest ASOs in US). Often easy to tell which projects will make $ and which, well, don't...Young Associates
Adam Huttler from @fracturedatlas acknowledges that the lines between commercial and non-profit theatre is blurrier than ever before #L3CL3C and the Arts
Hutter: So you can tell which would lend to L3CsYoung Associates
@L3C_ARTS an artist has a potential $ making idea- either has to convince some1 to invest or become a charity case. #l3c = middle groundHeather Shields
"The biggest potential for L3C/PRI in the arts is in film." #L3CJocelyn Shratter
Of all the arts sectors, is the #L3C model going to be most beneficial to film? ~Adam Huttler from @FracturedAtlas asksL3C and the Arts
Hutter: Sees a great potential of #L3Cs in film because: capital potentialYoung Associates
.@artfulmanager: CAPITAL vs OPERATING. Capital is the thing you need to do your project but is not or isn't consumed by your projectYoung Associates
RT @AmyKaissar: #l3c this seems more 4 fp to access fdn $ than for nfp to access private $. Increases competition 4 already limited fdn funds. Bad for nfps?Heather Shields
.@artfulmanager: Arts has a capital problem. You can solve the capital problem on the commercial market [via #l3c]Young Associates
Bailey: Our commercial model (for theatre) assumes failure 99% of the timeYoung Associates
Mosher: Mission drift happens when orgs are forced to chase $Young Associates
the #arts have a capital problem. - Andrew Taylor @L3C_ARTS @NewPlayTV - #newplay live on http://newplaytv.infoBernard Hall
If you could REALLY do plays with a mission base, plays about students or education or science would there b a place for an #L3C? ~@gdmosherL3C and the Arts
Huttler: Mission drift b/c of chasing $ is an excuse for either bad art or bad marketingYoung Associates
@brianbeirne Andrew Taylor just said it. The #arts have a capital problem. The #l3c attempts to resolve this issue.Bernard Hall
Bailey: #L3C is going to inform NFP theatre, not FP theatre. L3C helps NFP marry risk & mission more by attracting diff capitalYoung Associates
Does the #L3C model more inform the non-profit model or the commercial model? ~Tory Bailey, @tdfnyc #artsL3C and the Arts
Lane: #L3C is being used to create capital platforms to hedge risk.Young Associates
@brianbeirne I'm not falling on one side of the argument or the other. it is has been a hot topic for decades. #l3c could be another answerHeather Shields
@brianbeirne through PRIs, yes...or Donor Advised Funds (DAFs). Or individual investors. etc.Bernard Hall
Certain states allow for series #L3Cs - in essence, a fund investment modelL3C and the Arts
Risk in the arts like catastrophic insurance: need big pool for a hit, but the one hit can pay for all the failures. #L3CJocelyn Shratter
.@artfulmanager asks about the labour side of #l3cYoung Associates
Bailey: In the UK, under the grants model, gov has said no to doing unpaid internships. Perhaps a #l3c could have a purpose to fund trainingYoung Associates
Huttler: Another good labour point to #l3c is offering stock options to employeesYoung Associates
Lane: This shows the difference in mindset between working for NFP and FPYoung Associates
We are now discussing the human impact of adopting the #L3C model. What about internships? What about management competition? Compensation?L3C and the Arts
.@artfulmanager just because we create a #l3c for funding internships it doesn't mean there'll be money for itYoung Associates
Bailey: But, if we form a #l3c to fund salaries we can tap into eduction funding sources.Young Associates
Lane: generally, it's quite difficult to fund operating through foundations. PRIs are different, use as proof of asset & capacity levelYoung Associates
Lane: setting up l3c similar to llc, don't need gov approval.Young Associates
Interesting 2 me that the #L3C conversation has focused on how it effects current #arts biz models as opposed to the creation of new modelsAlli Houseworth
#L3C unpaid interns is a mngmnt choice. I worked for a NY NFP whose policy is that ALL paid NYC Living WageBrian Beirne
#L3C unpaid interns is a mngmnt choice. I worked for a NY NFP whose policy is that ALL paid NYC Living WageBrian Beirne
#l3c @l3c_arts QUESTION: what are some examples of radically awesome L3Cs in the arts? Follow-up Q: Are there any that have gotten PRIs?Trust Art
@AlliHouseworth #L3C agree. waiting for new ideas. Still where Adam was 2 hrs ago - l3c sms to do nothing existing models can't already doBrian Beirne
.@artfulmanager points out assets of a charity are essentially the public's. unsure about ownership of l3c's assetsYoung Associates
RT @TrustArt: #l3c @l3c_arts QUESTION: what are some examples of radically awesome L3Cs in the arts? Follow-up Q: Are there any that have gotten PRIs?Bernard Hall
Lane: operating agreement of l3c spells out custody of assetsYoung Associates
Mosher: nfp theatre is the only place where you mount your flops and close your hitsYoung Associates
Discussion now about using a l3c model to not have to close your hitsYoung Associates
As time is running out, do any of you have any questions or issues you'd like the panel to address? #L3CL3C and the Arts
Zwetsch: How many ppl in the room have not heard a good idea today? *no hands raised*Young Associates
Zwitsch: we havent had enough time elapse since intro of l3cs to see the impact of multiyr investmentYoung Associates
Mosher: L3Cs: "early bird gets the worm or second mouse gets the cheese?" (I can tell he's a theatre guy)Young Associates
Lane: l3cs a form of diversifying revenues, secure new funding, that would drive your missionYoung Associates
Perhaps the conversation should be viewed as a diversification of funding sources. ~Marc Lane @lanewealthgroup #L3CL3C and the Arts
Lane: l3c: misson driven, not market driven approachYoung Associates
Lane is Marc Lane of @lanewealthgroupYoung Associates
#L3C many successful commercial entities are also mission driven - like Apple, FedExBrian Beirne
Michael DiFonzo: there are very few. Asking those in the room to be these frontrunners.Young Associates
There are very few examples of arts orgs who are using the #L3C model.L3C and the Arts
there r almost no art focused L3Cs.is it b/c no 1 has guts to do it or b/c it's not really right form for them? hope it's the former #L3CKatharine Sullivan
@robotkat L3C is one of the structures we plan to discuss as our company moves forward. Needs more investigation by us.Mojo Theatre
@mojotheatre cool! definitely keep us updated about how you decide to move forward and if the L3C works for you. many opportunities! #L3CKatharine Sullivan
Lane: nobody wants to be a pioneer buy nobody wants to be left behind so jump inYoung Associates
Moo Milk ---> http://bit.ly/6tmnQz #L3CL3C and the Arts
#L3C nfp thtrs have 35% subsidy to their oprtions, can't solve to break even w'out subsidy - how will they move to low profit? @l3c_artsBrian Beirne
Q: can you produce political work as l3c?Young Associates
A: Huttler: for 501.3.c you cant be an electioneerYoung Associates
A: Lane: there are some tolerances as a l3c, but you cant lobby.Young Associates
Lane is now explaining how you can structure orgs as nfp and l3c to have both donor, investor w small rtn, investor w larger rtnYoung Associates
Bailey: the hook is to think about diversifying assets and finding different entry points for people to support youYoung Associates
Bailey: you can be several different things thread together by missionYoung Associates
Huttler: bulk of arts orgs small and will stay small. Danger in recommending hybrid structure bc cost of managing.Young Associates
Huttler: l3c is not for everyone. If your small, you need to assess whether l3c is right for youYoung Associates
@L3C_RickZ "the people who need $ (arts orgs), don't know how to talk to the people w/the $ (foundations)." arts peeps need biz peeps! #L3CKatharine Sullivan
Free advice from Marc Lane: looking for PRIs? Check out family foundations. #L3CL3C and the Arts
As we wrap-up we'd like to share some #L3C resources with you. Here's a great blog from @DERagsdale: http://bit.ly/ki6LUN #artsL3C and the Arts
Should we start to view foundations as catalysts rather than simply funders? , asks Marc Lane #L3C @lanewealthgroupL3C and the Arts
Here is Rock Zwetsch's website, interSector Partners L3C: http://bit.ly/73tZUW #L3CL3C and the Arts
Marc J Lane's @lanewealthgroup site: http://www.marcjlane.com/ #L3CL3C and the Arts
Our organizer's post on @Howlround can be found here: http://bit.ly/RIcasY #L3CL3C and the Arts
As an individual, you cannot get a tax deduction for giving to an L3C BUT..... 1/2L3C and the Arts
...you can get a deduction for giving through a fiscally sponsored #L3C. @fracturedatlas provides this service 2/2L3C and the Arts
"We fake it a lot in the arts. I think a new arts organization is more likely to be founded by my students rather than me." ~@gdmosher #L3CL3C and the Arts
"One thing that stuck with me is that you said things are getting better and there is a lot of $$ out there." ~Tory Bailey #L3C @tdfnycL3C and the Arts
"Maybe there is an opportunity here for us to talk about art as having social responsibility." ~Tory Bailey #L3C @tdfnycL3C and the Arts
"I hope that there are foundations that want to fund innovative entrepreneurial ventures in the arts" Adam Huttler @fracturedatlas #L3CL3C and the Arts
"It's people who are interested in this that are going to move it forward." ~@L3C_RickZ #L3CL3C and the Arts
"If you're interested in the #L3C, do it. Don't analyze it to death. If you are doing to do it, it's a business. For profit." ~@L3C_RickZL3C and the Arts
"I would just like to observe the thought-leadership in this room, and in this community. Keep talking!" ~Marc Lane @lanewealthgroup #L3CL3C and the Arts
You can find many resources, today's slides, and presentation on our website: http://l3candthearts.com. #L3CL3C and the Arts
That's all folks! Staff post summarizing the event on our site to come!Young Associates
@RSTStatusReport yes! Bookmark our website and check back oftenL3C and the Arts
RT @AmyKaissar: #l3c this seems more 4 fp to access fdn $ than for nfp to access private $. Increases competition 4 already limited fdn funds. Bad for nfps?Brian Beirne
@AmyKaissar depends on whether you think the pie is limited, or has great potential to invest in solving social issues. #L3C #socentinterSector Partners
RT @L3C_ARTS "I would just like to observe the thought-leadership in this room, and in this community."~Marc Lane @lanewealthgroup #L3CinterSector Partners
Thanks all for a great conversation about the #L3C. Lots of threads to follow and big ideas to unbundle. #newplayartfulmanager
Missed the symposium? available at #NEWPLAY TV http://www.livestream.com/newplay/video?clipId=pla_e813eb1e-172d-4ffb-8212-2bc1c397186b&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumbL3C and the Arts
Thank you @AlliHouseworth @artfulmanager @lanewealthgroup @interSector @AdamTheHutt @gdmosher @TDFNYC 4 making #L3C and the #Arts a success!L3C and the Arts
A special thank you to #NEWPLAY for hosting the live streaming of #L3C and the #ArtsL3C and the Arts
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